From Food Truck To Fast Growing Take-Out And Delivery
Wendy Caamano of Rocky’s Empanadas, Redmond, WA
Nate: Hello, and welcome. You’ve found “The Savory Secret,” where we talk to, and learn lessons from founders on starting and growing a thriving restaurant. I’m your host, Nate Ver Burg. Our guest on the show today is Wendy of Rocky’s Empanadas located in Redmond, Washington. Welcome, Wendy. It’s great to have you on the show today.
Wendy: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Nate: Yeah. So, let’s start at the beginning. Tell us how you got started in the restaurant business.
Wendy: Okay. Well, it definitely was not planned. So, my husband is from Argentina and he’s in the software industry, and he had done a few startups and was still wanting to stay in the startup business but over software. And every time we’d go to Argentina to visit, there’s empanadas everywhere, and people order them like pizza and eat out like their pizza and have them. And we just couldn’t believe that there was nothing like that in the Seattle area, not even really in the U.S. so much, and we thought if we ever started something, we should do empanadas, pick-up and take-out like pizza. And finally, we just decided to go for it. It was either like an ice cream shop or empanadas. So, here we are.
Nate: Yeah. So, how did he make that shift to leave the stability of that kind of, like, direction he was headed to now going into the restaurant business?
Wendy: Yeah, it was super scary. I don’t even know. I mean, literally, just instead of going into a corporate software job or another startup, he was just done sitting at the computer and started making empanadas at home all the time and trying different recipes, and decided, “Okay, this is what we’re going to do,” and then we started to just post, you know, “Does anybody want empanadas, pick-up empanadas?” I mean, we had a horrible name at first and we changed it to Rocky’s Empanadas, which was better and just started posting that we had empanadas to go and it was a mess. It was really a mess.
Nate: Wow. So, how did you get started? Did you then find a location?
Wendy: Yeah.
Nate: And what was your strategy of, like, how we’re going to market this and how we’re going to make this work?
Wendy: Yeah. So, we decided we were going to do the food truck route but Rocky wanted to build the food truck first. So, as we were starting the business, we were also building a food truck. So, we started with the commissary kitchen, which I highly recommend. I think it was really a great way to start to keep our costs down. And we just rented a few hours in a kitchen and a few shelves in a kitchen and a few shelves in the freezer, and a few hours in the ovens, and just started putting it together with little plastic molds and, you know, a couple of spoons and a cheese grater from home, and just started piecing it together and adding, you know, an hour at a time as we needed it and got busier. We’d started thinking we were going to do delivery, which I don’t know if anyone ever has tried delivery. It’s very hard to coordinate and do, so our very first, you know, empanadas for delivery post, we had to figure out how to get to, like, 5 houses at 6:00, all 5 of them with just me…
Nate: Sure.
Wendy: In the home oven. And it did not work, so…
Nate: It’s interesting you say that because I think a lot of restaurants right now during the COVID situation going on, they’re like, “Great, we’ll try our own delivery, and then…” because they were paying such high commissions, obviously, to these delivery partners.
Wendy: Right.
Nate: And then many that I’ve heard from, they all say, “We ended that. Like, that is a really tough business.” So, you’ve dealt with that firsthand with the delivery.
Wendy: Firsthand. Yeah. I mean, luckily, my neighbor showed up in the middle of it and we were like, “Oh, my gosh, can you take a box of empanadas to this address?” And she was like, “Okay, sure. Yeah,” and we were like, “Hey, go, go, go. We’re late already.” And I was going and Rodrigo had his head in his lap staring at the oven. I mean, it was nuts. Yeah. We’ll never forget it. And we did do the food truck. So, we would cook in the kitchen the empanadas. So, at this point, we were now really only out of the commissary and we would load the food truck and basically just call…you know. I’d call businesses and ask if they needed food trucks or events, and now we’re with Microsoft and bigger corporations where it’s more organized and we would show up for lunch with however many hundreds of empanadas we thought we would sell that day and just line up and sell them hot. So, it was really quick turnaround, which was also really popular because it was already cooked, so there was no wait. So, you order, we load it up, and you’re out, so…
Nate: Right. Did you deal with a lot of waste at that point, like when you were starting and trying to predict the inventory levels needed?
Wendy: Yeah. We would deal with waste, or we would actually just kind of cut it short and make sure we had enough, you know, a reasonable amount, but then when we were out, we were out, and we’d just shut the door and pull away.
Nate: Sure. And then it sounds like from what you’re saying is the commissary kitchen was a great way to begin.
Wendy: Yeah. So, the commissary kitchen, we were…I mean, we’ve only been in our own space since September. So, we were just renting more and more time, adding more and more people into the commissary kitchen to meet the demand for the food truck, but we always kept… Well, actually, when we first started, we were still saying we could do pick-up orders and people were coming to the back door of this commissary kitchen and kind of crowding in, and it was creating a problem because there was, obviously, other businesses happening. So, we rented the front space of this kitchen and had pick-up and take-out orders right out of the front.
Nate: Sure.
Wendy: And that slowly started…you know, has picked up more, and more, and more, and now with COVID, we were already just pick-up and take-out, so that’s done really well. Food trucks are not going out, but we’re doing frozen delivery, which takes off the time limit pressure of getting hot food out. But commissary kitchen, just adding hours, and hours, and hours until…you know. We just really needed our own space and busting at the seams, stepping on people’s toes, sharing this three compartment sink, having to block out oven times, all of that. And then finally, we just moved across the street. Basically, something came available, but again, keeping cost way down. I mean, we’re in like a warehouse space. That’s not great for, you know, retail pick-up, typically, but it’s working out. People find us. So, it was more just work with the food trucks initially, but now pick-up and take-out is doing really well and the food trucks are not going out during COVID, so…
Nate: Right. So, is that part of the mandate, like they’re unable to go out?
Wendy: Well, we ended up…I mean, we kind of stopped doing events unless it’s for, like, the kids’ school or something like that because that’s just a whole other mess that messes up inventory, and demand, and all that. So, we do consistent lunches, like, at Microsoft or SpaceX, so we have a schedule that we were used to sticking to. Microsoft doesn’t have people coming in right now, so that kind of put an end to that. So, we had to figure out other solutions to keep income coming, which started the frozen delivery. And so far, that’s working out, so we’ll see if we go back to the food trucks or not. Everything is always up in the air.
Nate: Yeah. Interesting. And then with the restaurant itself, because you had a following now with, obviously, being on campus and having a lot of people know about your empanadas and things, was it part of the strategy of saying, “Okay, well, now we can get a brick and mortar place because, you know, we have this great following and people are going to find us?” Or was it always to kind of go this frozen route?
Wendy: No, I think we always wanted our own brick and mortar, but also just still pick-up, take-out only. I mean, we didn’t necessarily want to be hiring servers and doing that whole part. We like the…I mean, you know, people come in, they order, hang out a little bit. Maybe they eat, but there’s really no seating, and then, you know, they leave, and you can take them hot, you can take them frozen. And that was always kind of our idea, like quick pick-up, you know, like a Domino’s Pizza type thing. I mean, that’s the vision, right? Like, lots of Rocky’s Empanadas may be all over the place and people were just picking up order online, come in, pick-up, you know.
Nate: Right. Wow. That’s great that you’ve found that niche and everything. And so, the commissary kitchen, so you eventually just completely ended that when you opened your brick and mortar.
Wendy: Correct. We did have to slowly roll over those. So, you know, we decreased hours slowly, like this fine little balance why we built the kitchen across the way, which had to be built up. I mean, there’s always something. I mean, literally, I think we just finished getting the hood finally approved a few weeks ago, to be honest. I mean, it’s just, yeah, slow. I mean, the electrician was still in there. This week, we just installed a walk-in freezer, you know, from three-door freezers to now a walk-in freezer. And a dishwasher, we didn’t have until a month ago and hours and hours of washing dishes is now… We have the dishwasher. So, it’s literally like baby steps, like, “Okay, dishwasher. Okay, walk-in freezer. Okay. Now, we’re going to do a tilting skillet.” I mean, one thing at a time just trying to support ourselves as we go. So, it’s been a long road, for sure.
Nate: And so, tell us about the food truck model. Like, is it a good business if someone else were to start that way? Like, would you do it again that way?
Wendy: That’s a funny question. Would we do any of this again? I don’t know. But yes, a food truck is…I mean, it’s super fun, and crazy, and chaotic, and definitely one more thing to manage because you have to change the oil, and make sure the brakes work, and make sure the generator is working. I mean, it’s definitely intense, but it’s a fun road and I still think it’s less expensive than starting a brick and mortar. So, it’s a good way to start. It’s good for marketing and advertising, and it’s fun.
Nate: And then I suppose with empanadas, there’s less of a space requirement. In other words, other restaurants that have tried food trucks, I’ve heard stories of, like, they just couldn’t do enough volume because of the amount, you know. There’s only so much, like, reefer or freezer space in a truck that you just…you’re kind of limited by your capacity, and sometimes you can pull a trailer and do different things, but really there’s always still that limitation. Did you experience that or were your empanadas compact enough that you were able to, like you said, sell out if you needed to?
Wendy: So, we can only load so many empanadas. That’s true in the one hot hold that we have in there, which is usually enough for us to be happy and close up and leave. And, I mean, the other thing that happens with empanadas is because they weren’t cooked in the truck, when you’re out of a flavor, you’re out of a flavor, so people would just move on to [inaudible 00:10:45], you know. So, if you wanted ham and cheese, and classic meat, and we were out of both of those, then you end up with a spinach and cheese and an onion and cheese, but you didn’t necessarily always get your first choice. So, it would just depend. And we would try and do, you know, if it was a kids’ event, more ham and cheese. I mean, we just started to know the crowd a little bit, but there is a space, I mean, concern with the trucks, for sure. But as long as you can store enough to do what you wanted to do for, you know, that night or day, you can make it work.
Nate: Yeah. And what were some of the most challenging aspects of food trucks, things that you experienced along the way?
Wendy: I mean, it doesn’t stop. Like, we’ve had it dead in the road, the food truck dead, like having to push it, put [inaudible 00:11:30], a neighbor passing by, “Oh, that’s Rocky’s truck. Pull over quick.” I mean, the generator got stolen off of the truck. Somebody stole gas out of the truck. I don’t know. It’s always making a weird noise. Yeah. The list goes on, but they’re your babies, so we just take care of them and enjoy it, and…I don’t know. I mean, you have to be willing to definitely go with the flow because something will definitely come up, for sure.
Nate: Every day or just pretty regularly?
Wendy: Pretty regularly.
Nate: Wow. So, going onto some of these campuses, were you able to just drive on? Did you have to actually apply for the ability to do that?
Wendy: Yeah. So, that’s a really good question because a lot of places, it’s not a big deal to be able to go on. You just need to get permission, where Microsoft did have higher standards as far as your insurance requirement and things like that, so it was harder to get on. So, you did have to pay a little bit more on the back-end for our insurance and coverage to be able to be at a corporation like that, but it ended up, it’s worth it in the end. But yeah, we’re at a community center. We were anyways, you know, two evenings a week when school got out, and that was just like a local place in our neighborhood that we asked if we could park it at. And so, there’s places like that people can find. It’s really how much work you want to put into it, driving around, scoping out places, seeing…you know. It’d always be nice to have, like, a permanent space to just park the truck, then you don’t have to worry about maybe changing oil as much, things like that. There’s definitely opportunities if you go looking for them, for sure.
Nate: Are you still happy with the decision to go brick and mortar for now?
Wendy: Yes. We’re still happy with it. Whether or not we’ll bring the trucks back out is still up in the air, but we like this frozen delivery model, just because we’re thinking it might work well. Just moving forward, in general, people can always have frozen empanadas in the freezer that are, you know, still made fresh and easy to cook. But, I mean, that was fun too, like throwing kids in the car and putting in…there’s good, you know, apps and just going from house to house and delivering empanadas and, you know, three hours later I’m like, “Okay, I’ve got to drop the kids off somewhere.” I mean, it’s just stuff like that, and then, you know, we usually maybe mess up one order and then I go behind and redeliver in that area the next day the order we messed up, but it’s just such a fun experience and…I don’t know. You really do just learn to live with it and love the excitement of it all. And it’d be boring if we weren’t doing this, I think.
Nate: Yeah. And so, you mentioned Rodrigo had this desire to get up from the computer and do something like this. Was it just the food or is he a people person? Like, what were some of the aspects that would compel him to do this beyond just the food?
Wendy: Yeah. He really loves cooking and…so, he is from Argentina, which I mentioned, and lots of barbecue, and just being with friends, and being social and…yeah. I mean, he just love the idea of cooking. He’s always the one cooking and barbecuing for everyone, and we just love that. So, he really just enjoys being in the kitchen and cooking for people and people enjoying his food.
Nate: Yeah. And then, tell me a little bit about your background as well.
Wendy: So, I am a dietician, actually, so a personal trainer, master’s in nutrition, and have my own practice that I also do on the side a few hours a week when I’m not delivering empanadas. So, that’s my background, and I don’t do the cooking, actually. I stay far, far away. Both of us in the kitchen is not a good idea. So, I like to bring out the orders and talk to people and do that part and set up all the back-end stuff to set up a business and he does all the management of the employees in the back-end and cooking recipes, things like that. So, a good team.
Nate: And then you balance a family on top of all that.
Wendy: Yes. And then we have…yeah, we do.
Nate: So, tell me about that. How do you find the time? I mean, obviously, we find time to do what’s important, but how do you manage that? Because having the food trucks, that sounds fairly labor-intensive and even managing other people and employees is still a lot of work, and then being a dietician, and then having a family.
Wendy: Yeah. So, well, Rocky is gone a lot. So, he definitely makes up for the times that I’m, you know, with the kids, so he can be down there doing work and I’m with the kids and we pop in and say hi or help at busy times or Saturdays. When we don’t have employees working, we’re all down there. So, we don’t have them down there a whole lot, the kiddos. I can do a lot from home with them. And then I schedule, you know, my clients around when Rocky can be home. So, it might be in the Saturday morning and then the kitchen is open Saturday night, so things like that. I don’t know. I think the kids kind of…you know, their dad is Rocky of Rocky’s Empanadas, it’s kind of become their identity a little bit. It’s fun in the area anyways. And yeah, we put them to work if they can help, not a lot, just for fun, but it’s just become like a family.
Nate: Sure. They love it.
Wendy: Yeah. They love it. Exactly. It gives them a little job to do. And Maya, the little one, is just usually on my hip or following me up and down as I’m bringing orders out and we just make the best of it.
Nate: That’s great. Well, let’s take just a moment and introduce our sponsor today. Today’s show is made possible by TableTop. TableTop is transforming the restaurant industry by offering low cost, easy to use restaurant tech solutions designed by restaurateurs to solve real problems in the front of house and back of house to achieve greater levels of profitability. In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, they’re offering a contactless dining experience using QR code menus to give your guests and staff peace of mind. So, now your guests can order and pay from the table using their own mobile device. So, your guests can be seated, simply pull out their phones, scan the QR code at the table without downloading anything or logging into any apps. They can browse your full menu, place their orders, which go straight to the POS or kitchen display. And then finally, they can pay and tip, all without needing to handle any menus or sign any receipts. So, a question for you, Wendy. How have you guys handled the COVID situation with the whole contactless menus and things like that?
Wendy: Yeah. I think software has played a big part in it, with Rocky’s background in software being able to just switch links and update ordering links and set it up. And that’s been really helpful, I feel like, so…and we don’t have anybody to sign anything or touch the screens. We just have them stick their cards in the card reader and done, so…
Nate: Well. That’s good that he’s got that background so you can kind of take advantage of what’s available. That’s fantastic.
Wendy: Yes.
Nate: So, right now, TableTop is offering a contactless QR menu dining kit. The offer is available while supplies last, but you can reserve your QR menu dining kit today by visiting TryTableTop.com. So, Wendy, going back to your story a little bit, so you’ve got this restaurant, you know, the food trucks are yet to be seen whether you’re going to reincorporate that. What do you see going forward here? I mean, obviously, the restaurants have been in this present situation.
Wendy: So, I think we probably could open the dining room if we wanted to, but again, it’s just a bar with a couple of stools and more just waiting benches for waiting for orders. So, there’s really no, you know, eating space anyway. So, we might just keep it so people are waiting outside in the open air for now for a little bit longer because it’s really not necessary to have them waiting inside, or they can still wait in their car. So, we’ll see. Basically, right now, people can’t get past the door. We just have, you know, moved up the counter. So, we might go ahead and move it back and let people come in a little bit further and just slowly keep ramping up.
Nate: Yeah. And what would you say for those that are listening that are in the place of wanting to get started and whether it is to start with a food truck model or whether it is to actually start with a brick and mortar, there are some things that you’ve learned along the way that maybe were different than what you expected them to be when you guys got started initially?
Wendy: Yeah. I mean, I truly believe anybody can do it if they want to, just finding one thing to start with and just slowly, like, checking off the boxes because it’s super overwhelming if you look at the whole picture all at once. Just call, you know, starting with the health department or getting your permit, just one thing at a time, and you’ll, all of a sudden, be done with everything if you just start checking it off. And so, I mean, I’m just surprised with how many little steps there really are to do, and I think that helped, just one thing at a time so it’s less overwhelming and, all of a sudden, everything is done.
Nate: Right. That’s really good advice. Tell me about your secret sauce that’s allowed you guys to thrive and now open the brick and mortar.
Wendy: I would say the food is really good just because it’s a unique niche, so maybe that’s a little bit of the secret sauce, just that there’s not a lot of people doing empanadas right now. But I would say also just being flexible and rolling with the punches and just being like, “Okay, well, maybe this is the way we’re going to go,” or, “This is the…” I mean, having a plan, yes, but at the same time, if it didn’t work out as planned, you know, try not to freak out about it, which Rocky does a lot better than I do, for sure. He does, “Okay. Well, this is what we’re going to do,” or, “This is what happened, you know. Wendy, be quiet, it’s going to be okay.”
Nate: Yeah. Sounds great.
Wendy: So, I think that really is the secret, just being flexible, and being patient, and knowing it does take time, but it will work.
Nate: Yes. That’s great. Well, for those who are listening and want to learn more about Rocky’s Empanadas, you can visit rockysempanadas.com. Tell us for those who are in the Seattle area that want to visit and try out your food, how can they find you? And when they do come in, what’s a favorite of yours that they just have to try?”
Wendy: Okay. So, we are kind of hard to find. Like I said, we’re in sort of a warehouse location. You got to go around a roundabout and turn, you know, or a median to get in there, but you’ll find us in Redmond off the 202 by, like, Whole Foods and Pomegranate over there, so right at the tail-end of Redmond. And I’d say the classic meat is probably the most popular right now. So, empanadas is usually just leftovers, you know, shoved into pastries, so that one is just the classic ground meat with a bunch of other stuff mixed in there. If you like the vegetarian ones, spinach and cheese is really popular and the kiddos love the ham and cheese. I’m actually really bad at that question. I’d say try a few different ones.
Nate: They’re all good, right?
Wendy: They’re all good. You can’t go wrong. Yeah.
Nate: That’s excellent. Well, Wendy, it’s been really great having you on today, and it’s been really fun.
Wendy: Thank you for having me. I’m really excited I got to do this. Great opportunity. Thank you.
Nate: Thank you, again, for joining us today on “The Savory Secret.” I’m your host, Nate Ver Burg. We invite you to click Subscribe to receive all of the latest interviews from restaurant founders as we discuss lessons they’ve learned while starting and growing a thriving restaurant. Also, remember to visit our sponsor today and use the promo code “Savory” to reserve your free QR code contactless dining kit by visiting TryTableTop.com. Until next time, enjoy some delicious food, and we’ll talk with you again real soon.